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	<title>Comments on: Decoupling price from cost in legal services</title>
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	<description>Dispatches from a legal profession on the brink</description>
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		<title>By: What about clients? : Binary Law</title>
		<link>http://www.law21.ca/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.law21.ca%2F2008%2F11%2F26%2Fdecoupling-price-from-cost-in-legal-services%2F%23comment-430&amp;seed_title=Decoupling+price+from+cost+in+legal+services/comment-page-1/#comment-430</link>
		<dc:creator>What about clients? : Binary Law</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:42:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Decoupling price from cost in legal services: In order to turn a profit, firms will be forced to streamline their costs of production, whatever they might be. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Decoupling price from cost in legal services: In order to turn a profit, firms will be forced to streamline their costs of production, whatever they might be. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bringing legal costs back down to Earth - NIMONIK - Environmental Regulations Simplified/Règlements environnementaux simplifiés</title>
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		<dc:creator>Bringing legal costs back down to Earth - NIMONIK - Environmental Regulations Simplified/Règlements environnementaux simplifiés</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2008 17:08:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Furlong at Law 21 has a great post on decoupling price from cost in legal services.  His argument: law firms have never been [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Furlong at Law 21 has a great post on decoupling price from cost in legal services.  His argument: law firms have never been [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Wilson</title>
		<link>http://www.law21.ca/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.law21.ca%2F2008%2F11%2F26%2Fdecoupling-price-from-cost-in-legal-services%2F%23comment-387&amp;seed_title=Decoupling+price+from+cost+in+legal+services/comment-page-1/#comment-387</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 18:34:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Jordan,

Terrific post.  I concur with Friedmann&#039;s comment &quot;[r]eal costs savings mean changing the process, focusing on how lawyers practice.&quot;  Your observation that the process for producing work hasn&#039;t changed much over time is spot on.  Advancements in tools (e.g., CALR) to assist that process have made some aspects more efficient, but haven&#039;t fundamentally changed the way lawyers approach a single client&#039;s issue.  I wonder if the rise of outsourcing isn&#039;t simply another enhancement, something for lawyers to integrate into their practice without fundamentally changing it.

I do wish lawyers and firms would spend more time on KM.  The loss of intellectual capital, and in some cases real process change, from one lawyer and department to the next is tragic and wasteful.  As your last example suggests, becoming efficient does not mean less profitability.  If anything, it&#039;s the exact opposite.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jordan,</p>
<p>Terrific post.  I concur with Friedmann&#8217;s comment &#8220;[r]eal costs savings mean changing the process, focusing on how lawyers practice.&#8221;  Your observation that the process for producing work hasn&#8217;t changed much over time is spot on.  Advancements in tools (e.g., CALR) to assist that process have made some aspects more efficient, but haven&#8217;t fundamentally changed the way lawyers approach a single client&#8217;s issue.  I wonder if the rise of outsourcing isn&#8217;t simply another enhancement, something for lawyers to integrate into their practice without fundamentally changing it.</p>
<p>I do wish lawyers and firms would spend more time on KM.  The loss of intellectual capital, and in some cases real process change, from one lawyer and department to the next is tragic and wasteful.  As your last example suggests, becoming efficient does not mean less profitability.  If anything, it&#8217;s the exact opposite.</p>
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		<title>By: Jordan Furlong</title>
		<link>http://www.law21.ca/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.law21.ca%2F2008%2F11%2F26%2Fdecoupling-price-from-cost-in-legal-services%2F%23comment-386&amp;seed_title=Decoupling+price+from+cost+in+legal+services/comment-page-1/#comment-386</link>
		<dc:creator>Jordan Furlong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 03:06:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.law21.ca/?p=385#comment-386</guid>
		<description>Thanks very much, Bernie! I think you&#039;ve hit on exactly the problem -- the laws of supply and demand work fine in an open marketplace, but the legal services marketplace isn&#039;t open and lawyers have done their best to keep it at that way. 

Even giving &quot;the unauthorized practice of law&quot; the most generous interpretation and saying it truly is meant to protect the public from unscrupulous legal service providers, the effect surely is to keep &quot;the practice of law&quot; exclusively a lawyers&#039; domain. But you can&#039;t UPL an Indian practitioner,  a document management company or an online Practice Support Lawyer, and these kinds of competitors are already undermining lawyers&#039; lock on their markets. 

To the extent lawyers have ever sought to justify their rates, they&#039;ve relied on the argument that &quot;no one can do this but us, so you&#039;ll have to accept our prices.&quot; But others can do a lot of this stuff now, and lawyers are scrambling to come up with new rationales for what they charge. They may argue they provide better-quality service, and that&#039;s valid -- that&#039;s how markets are supposed to work, different providers finding different price points with which they&#039;re comfortable and at which they can still turn a profit. But lawyers still face the problem that a growing number of clients are quite happy to trade quality for price, and will take the 75% solution at 15% of the cost. I&#039;m not sure lawyers have an answer to that.

You&#039;re quite right that litigation will be largely immune to these  forces -- you can&#039;t outsource a cross-examination. But the litigation process is still rife with inefficiencies, especially in the discovery phase. You can pay 20 associates to spend three months reviewing millions of documents; or you can outsource it, automate it and knowledge-manage it (the associates may lose their jobs, but they&#039;ll probably lead happier lives). And in any event, the rise of the self-represented litigant is going to take a different kind of toll on litigators.

Actual trial advocacy, and the real hard-line preparation that goes into it, will survive -- but these are among the relatively few &quot;pure lawyer&quot; services out there. How many things that lawyers do today could not, under great pressure, be done by someone or something  else that&#039;s not a lawyer? Not nearly as many as the profession would like to think. I suspect the next 15-20 years will bear that out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks very much, Bernie! I think you&#8217;ve hit on exactly the problem &#8212; the laws of supply and demand work fine in an open marketplace, but the legal services marketplace isn&#8217;t open and lawyers have done their best to keep it at that way. </p>
<p>Even giving &#8220;the unauthorized practice of law&#8221; the most generous interpretation and saying it truly is meant to protect the public from unscrupulous legal service providers, the effect surely is to keep &#8220;the practice of law&#8221; exclusively a lawyers&#8217; domain. But you can&#8217;t UPL an Indian practitioner,  a document management company or an online Practice Support Lawyer, and these kinds of competitors are already undermining lawyers&#8217; lock on their markets. </p>
<p>To the extent lawyers have ever sought to justify their rates, they&#8217;ve relied on the argument that &#8220;no one can do this but us, so you&#8217;ll have to accept our prices.&#8221; But others can do a lot of this stuff now, and lawyers are scrambling to come up with new rationales for what they charge. They may argue they provide better-quality service, and that&#8217;s valid &#8212; that&#8217;s how markets are supposed to work, different providers finding different price points with which they&#8217;re comfortable and at which they can still turn a profit. But lawyers still face the problem that a growing number of clients are quite happy to trade quality for price, and will take the 75% solution at 15% of the cost. I&#8217;m not sure lawyers have an answer to that.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re quite right that litigation will be largely immune to these  forces &#8212; you can&#8217;t outsource a cross-examination. But the litigation process is still rife with inefficiencies, especially in the discovery phase. You can pay 20 associates to spend three months reviewing millions of documents; or you can outsource it, automate it and knowledge-manage it (the associates may lose their jobs, but they&#8217;ll probably lead happier lives). And in any event, the rise of the self-represented litigant is going to take a different kind of toll on litigators.</p>
<p>Actual trial advocacy, and the real hard-line preparation that goes into it, will survive &#8212; but these are among the relatively few &#8220;pure lawyer&#8221; services out there. How many things that lawyers do today could not, under great pressure, be done by someone or something  else that&#8217;s not a lawyer? Not nearly as many as the profession would like to think. I suspect the next 15-20 years will bear that out.</p>
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		<title>By: Bernie Keating</title>
		<link>http://www.law21.ca/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.law21.ca%2F2008%2F11%2F26%2Fdecoupling-price-from-cost-in-legal-services%2F%23comment-385&amp;seed_title=Decoupling+price+from+cost+in+legal+services/comment-page-1/#comment-385</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernie Keating</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 02:40:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Jordan:
Read and loved your article. BUT, no decoupling in my field, personal injury.

Isn&#039;t decoupling ephemeral unless the equilibrium between the supply and demand of lawyers changes?  Legal fees are directly related to the number of lawyers offering a particular service.  The more lawyers offering a particular service in relation to those seeking to buy them, the higher the price,  and vice versa?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jordan:<br />
Read and loved your article. BUT, no decoupling in my field, personal injury.</p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t decoupling ephemeral unless the equilibrium between the supply and demand of lawyers changes?  Legal fees are directly related to the number of lawyers offering a particular service.  The more lawyers offering a particular service in relation to those seeking to buy them, the higher the price,  and vice versa?</p>
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